Theme Support, Flexibility or Ease of use Options

[Stormtrooper]

PsychoStats themes are extremely flexible and have used "Smarty Templates" to separate any PHP coding from the presentation. But there's still a lot of "logic" in the themes that probably shouldn't be in the themes. And a theme has dozens of files that make up the overall stats website. This can be very cumbersome for users who want to make simple changes.

I'm toying with some ideas on changing the way themes are done to make it easier to alter common elements like menus, colors, headers, etc... but remove most logic out of the theme which would make them less robust but a lot easier to 'skin' for the average user who knows nothing about HTML or CSS. But is this a good idea?'

Ps3.2 introduced "parent - child" themes, but as I look back at this, I think it just complicates things. And I've noticed that out of all the themes that the community has made all of theme are nothing more than some style/color changes. No one attempts to change the overall look of the stats. So is there really a need for this system?

Your thoughts?

[coach]

I think simple is the way to go. More chance of people making some of their own changes if it was simplified.

As well the people that can already modify heavily would still be able to so anyway.

But this way you please more with simplicity.

[pc349bds]

You could do both have a simple one that is put on with the default install and editable with a GUI. Then have a complex one with all the stuff you have now then the GUI would be turned off. So you would have a noob mode for those of use that are lazy and a advanced mode for those of use that are master coders.

[Brad]

If you think it's more likely people will actually make new ones, if it were more simple too, then I'd go that route. Basically, whichever route would leave to a bigger variety of layouts.

[Stormtrooper]

Well, I do think to have more themes made, the number of files involved needs to be lessened (which is why I did the parent -> child theme support in 3.2; but no one cared anyway). So, chances are I'm going to completely change the way themes are done.

[Drek]

I think the system you used with PS 3.x was good, I just think that many, such as myself, didn't understand how it worked. And perhaps you should take it as a compliment that people were so happy with what you did with the stock theme, that no one felt the pressing need to create a new one.

I think also there is a level of complexity in theme design for PS 3.x that is pretty daunting. PS 3.x is fairly complex, and creating a new theme from scratch, or even doing some serious modifications is a very big job. I know that even the modifications I made to colours etc. took some effort on my part.

[Stormtrooper]

/nods. As much as I tried to simplify the styles in the theme it ended up being very complex. The interface is rather large in PS3 so it makes sense for there to be a lot of files that make up the theme.

I'm happy with the overall theme, for the most part. I may change the layout a bit but I mainly plan to make changes to how the theme is built. Maybe with less files overall. Afterall, a lot of the stats pages are the same basic design so there isn't a need to have a completely separate html file for each page. Instead a more generic page can be created that can be reused for multiple pages (since the tables are dynamically created in code and not in the theme).

[DirtyDave]

Storm, I found the themes real easy to modify. Anybody can download firebug and/or web developer bar addons for firefox and go anywhere on any of the elements and find out the exact lines and exact coding. Took me only like 5 minutes to modify a theme. I had no probs. For example...this is what I have PS3 looking like for my servers:

http://skulshockcommunity.com/stats/sso/

[jtp10181]

I think most people are satisfied with your layout and just like to make the colors match thier site or clan colors. If there was a simple way to change the colors and images most people would happy.

[ToXedVirus]

Storm, I found the themes real easy to modify. Anybody can download firebug and/or web developer bar addons for firefox and go anywhere on any of the elements and find out the exact lines and exact coding. Took me only like 5 minutes to modify a theme. I had no probs. For example...this is what I have PS3 looking like for my servers:

http://skulshockcommunity.com/stats/sso/

This theme is horrible, but the actual point is, that you just changed some colors, thats it.
No overall redesign, thats what storm is talking about.

[Stormtrooper]

In my development of Ps4.0 I"ve come to a hybrid combination that allows flexibility and still ease of use for simple color changes. But simply, the main css files for the theme are processed as templates which means variables can be used for various colors and will eventually be changeable in the ACP. But the theme is still 100% flexible in design at the same time.

[Drek]

But simply, the main css files for the theme are processed as templates which means variables can be used for various colors and will eventually be changeable in the ACP.

I really like that.

[ZERO ibis]

Yea it took me a while to program my own code to add up online time so I could display it in signatures but people that wanted to change how the data was outputted could always modify the php code.

The way I see how it should be, theme controls only how it looks; php scripts control the values and their processing.

Currently I know that you use smarty classes to convert the user online times, last connected date ect. I know that you will still want to store this data in sql as seconds to be more efficient. If you want the code to convert the seconds into actual output like how the smarty class does pm or e-mail me and I can send you the code to use in the next version. I wrote it all myself from scratch in php.

[Stormtrooper]

I understand your point, which is essentially to "separate program logic and presentation." Which is the whole point of having 'themes' in the first place. But PS outputs some very complex pages and a simple theme without any logic just won't do it.

So smarty allows a theme author to use a little more logic w/o having to know PHP coding (and the syntax is a little easier). This is an age-old argument that developers have with each other. Templates are good, Templates are bad, Everything should be done in straight PHP, without templates it just gets too complicated, etc... It goes back and forth .

Personally, I like Smarty. It allows easy theme changes with minimal effort of programming knowledge (of course you have to understand the syntax of the engine though).

[cladiron]

PsychoStats themes are extremely flexible and have used "Smarty Templates" to separate any PHP coding from the presentation. But there's still a lot of "logic" in the themes that probably shouldn't be in the themes. And a theme has dozens of files that make up the overall stats website. This can be very cumbersome for users who want to make simple changes.

I'm toying with some ideas on changing the way themes are done to make it easier to alter common elements like menus, colors, headers, etc... but remove most logic out of the theme which would make them less robust but a lot easier to 'skin' for the average user who knows nothing about HTML or CSS. But is this a good idea?'

Ps3.2 introduced "parent - child" themes, but as I look back at this, I think it just complicates things. And I've noticed that out of all the themes that the community has made all of theme are nothing more than some style/color changes. No one attempts to change the overall look of the stats. So is there really a need for this system?

Your thoughts?

i think that would be that main reason to do it.
I have only seen 1 that has peeked my interest, but i couldn't use it because it was from an earlier version of PS.

i think it's too confusing to edit as is.
anyone agree ?

[SHinOkung]

Thank you for any comment and this article.

[lachesis]

i've copied theme to themes directory, but it does not showing in themes.php.. that is strange. do i need to run stats.pl, or something to make it shown?